Monday, May 15, 2006

Stop poaching in Wales EDP!

What's this business then? As Welsh nationalists we're supportive of English nationalist aspirations. Historically it is Britishness that is a threat to Welsh and Wales not Englishness.

It's in the name of Britishness that the British nationalists of the Labour Party made sure that you could be a Welshman and not speak Welsh but not be a Welshman and not speak English.

It's Britishness (which is again being stuffed down our throats by the Brit Nats Labour Party and their latest 'British Culture and traditions' indoctrination lessons in school) that deletes Wales and Welshness.

We can live and get along quite happily with English nationalism. So what's this stunt all about? We already speak your language what more do you want?

Start winning seats in England, recognise Cornwall's aspirations to nationhood, and sort your own country out, but stop poaching in Wales!


wonkotsane said...

The EDP are only contesting Monmouthshire because of its ambiguous status.

Also, the "British values" lessons are only going to apply to England.

Nicholas Michael Morgan said...

The status of Monmouthshire is not ambiguous whatsoever, it is a part of Wales, always has been, always will be.

There is an old saying in Welsh "O Fon i Fynwy" Which translates to "From Anglesey to Monmouthshire" i.e. the length and breadth of Wales.

To be perfectly honest, this decision makes the EDP look like a bunch of nutters - unlike Plaid and the SNP in Wales and Scotland who have gained the respect of the 'British Parties', and are not regarded as extremist.

We have always been in favour of English independence on this blog, but with this decision, it makes you wonder what kind of nutters are running the campaign!

Tegwared ap Seion said...

With "British Values" lessons only applying to England it once again feeds the train of thought that says "England = Britain". Why not call it "English Values" lessons??

maria said...

Monmouthshire is in England. The Welsh are so territorial and childish, and I call burning people's property down pretty dire - so don't keep slagging the Irish and English off for their misdeeds!

And "Celtic"? Have you not read the latest genetic research which shows plainly that the Celts did not make it to these islands en masse?

Meanwhile, under 40% of the population of Cornwall were actually born there - and that county thinks it's a totally separate people to the English?

But I'm happy for it to be independent. As long as that's exactly what it means (no Barnett style handouts) and it's agreed by referendum. We can have a similar one for the rest of England (including Cornwall if it opts to remain with England) the following week.

Troedyrhiw said...

British!!!Did someone say British.

Did your school teachers ever tell you the truth(see dictionary)about the Historic Brits..You bet they never..Remember..the 'winners' ALWAYS get to write the historybooks

The Angle Saxon and Jutes called the language 'Welsh' (in Welsh,...y Gymraeg) and the people 'Welsh' (y Cymry..meaning brotherhood)) and Wales (Cymru) ...Just remember that "Welsh" is the old English(Germanic) word for "foreigner/ alien/ barbarian"..The Welsh,(2.4 million of them in 300AD) are the original Britons and don't let any one persuade you that they were 'absorbed' by tens of thousands of Jutes,Saxons and Angles..Do the words genocide and ethnic cleansing come to mind..

Just Rememeber this...Never.. never ever compromise on your Culture,your History and your Language..For that is the ONLY thing that has made you different for over 3000 years.

Fact...Welsh and Wales are derogatory words meaning "the territory of the alien race",used by the Anglo Saxons
Fact...Welsh are indigenous people.These are the original Britons and they live in Britain and they are British...They are all that is left of the British People.
Fact...Welsh and Wales are Germanic expressions (German Wälsch)
Fact...English people came from Germany...the Angles and the Saxons.
Fact...Wales(Briton) was Christianized by the Romans almost 2000 years ago
Fact...English people (Anglo Saxon)tried to eliminate/destroy everything that was British Welsh Romano,even Christianity....Find out when the English(Anglo Saxon) became Christians,you will be surprised.
Fact...Britons invited the English(Anglo Saxon) to their country to fight the Scots and the Picts from the North,they turned on the Britons and eventually pushed them into Wales.(Dementea ...Silures)
Fact...Strathclyde was one of the Welsh Kingdoms of Britain.It was in SW Scotland and Dumbarton was the principal town.
Fact...Cornwall was at one time called West Wales
Fact...Remember,the English(Anglo Saxon) gave you the derogatory word.."Welsh"
Fact...St Patrick was born in Wales,in the same "shire" as St David patriot Saint of Wales.(March 1st)
Fact...Anthony Hopkins was born in the same village as Richard Burton(Jenkins)Welsh Nationalist....Richard must be also turning over in his grave..God Bless him.
Fact(maybe)...When the Normans came and conquered the Anglo Saxons in 1066...the Welsh went down the pub to celebrate:))))May have been led by Arthur ??

To the Welsh I say, if you really want to get back at Bede)see below) and antagonize any of the other "British"people...Claim, with one big loud...ever so loud voice..."We are British" and put your mark down for posterity(Missed opportunity in the 2001 Census ) I am quite sure that English people will not want their check box to read "Anglo-Saxon" .....The German people must be having a good laugh at the expense of the Welsh Assembly and the British Parliament.

Claiming and voting in one voice to be British and saying "No to Bede"(see below)..would indeed create attention in the rest of the World....Assuming in the fallout, the Scots, English and the Northern Irish would lose the "British" tag...and Bede would turn over in his grave(no disrespect intended)

Why not??,the English,Scots and Irish Historians and Scholars must be quite embarrassed and annoyed at being called British or Brits from Britain,after all, it was the Britons that succumbed(never beaten) to the English way....Maybe ask an Englishman his opinion..Someone who has been taught historical truth

It occurs to me, that again I am witnessing AGAIN the ostracizing of the Welsh People.This is what Bede appears to done in his "Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation"(731 AD) to the Britons.(in the 4 of the 5 books I have read so far )
Bede an Angle-Saxon Theologian and Historian and Christian introduced the method of dating events from the birth of Jesus Christ...Most(not all) English Scholars, past and present, insist that he provided reliable information that by Historical research,some(not many) can be corroborated....One can argue that this is not true..It is the nature of Bede's presentation that I find as a Brit...offensive.
Bede was not a time traveller...a vast amount of his work was based on "Pliny the Elder"......Gaius Plinius Cecilius Secundus a Roman Scholar and Encyclopedist..It is maybe significant to remember that some of Pliny's works have been classified as "useless"..

"The First Christians" ...and who they may have been..Has anyone ever considered the Britons(Welsh peoples)
King Caradoc..Kymmric name...that is Caractucus..(in the Latin)of the Silures(South East Wales)and his father[Bran] fought many battles during the period AD26 to AD49 against Claudius Caesar and others...He even in an "Aneiran Bevan" scholarly presentation when captured(betrayed) and on trail in Rome,convinced the Emperor and Roman Senate and the Roman people to release him and his family..which they did
For Caradoc(Caractucus)to become King his, father Bran relinquished his title and went back to the Druidic and their teachings which as you may be aware is very similar to that of the Hebrew scriptures. and follows a similar course to Christianity...If we are to believe that Joseph of Arathemea(Jesus's uncle) who apparently had many tin mines in West Wales(Cornwall) was as rich as some is quite logical for he and Caradoc to have feasted/dined at some time or other...That be the case the most obvious question arises..what did they talk about ..Not to forget that Caractucus(Caradoc) had spent over 20 years in the teachings of Druid religion,laws and philosophy.

Paul the Apostle wrote a letter to Timothy(Tim II:4:21)and gives his best wishes to three people Pudens, and Linus, and Claudia..................Linus is Caradoc's son and Claudia(Gladys..Welsh)his daughter..Puden a Roman Soldier is married to Claudia....Gladys whilst living in the Emporia Court in Rome adopted Caesar's name...Pudens and Claudia's home still stands today....I have seen it
Caradoc's great grandson,King Lucius ,declared Britain/Wales a Christian country by public announcement, three hundred years before Augustine ever set sail for the British shores and about 150 years before Constantine declared Rome a Christian Empire.

So it was left to Caractacus's great grandson Lucius (d.156 AD)to first declare the British(Welsh)nation to be Christian....The Angles and Saxons and Jutes conversion to Christianity came three hundred years Augustine and thee not to friendly Welsh and Irish monks.

Caractacus resided in Rome for many years,during which time he became a believer in Jesus before returning to Wales..Some argue that Caractacus was the same person as Arviragus...Some say they were cousins?

British..did someone say British

Kieth Norman( in Canada) oxymoron there mate

Nicholas Michael Morgan said...

Are you just thick Maria? How can you say that "Monmouthshire is in England" when it plainly isn't. Maybe you want it to be, but it certainly isn't.

The EDP have been given support by this blog for many months, but frankly, they are now considered to be just another pathetic right wing party, another extreme tory splinter group, just like the BNP and UKIP, with no electoral hope in hell.

Nicholas Michael Morgan said...

You raise some very valuable historical points there troedyrhiw, but the truth is that the 'British' tag is NOT associated with the Cymry anymore, but rather with England.

In the rest of the world, British = English!

I know that the words 'Wales' and 'Welsh' were given to the Welsh (Britons) by the anglo-saxons, and that they mean 'forigner', but in today's world, we, as a distinct group of people, are known throughout the World as 'Welsh'.

I'll let the English have the tag 'British' if they give us independence. I don't care really WHAT we are called as a group of people, as long as we are considered to be a distinct group of people, with our own culture and language, and not just the Western part of England.

When Cymru is an independent nation, we can start a campaign to reclaim the term 'British', but until then, I think it will only complicate the issue.

wonkotsane said...

Nicholas, please get your facts right before arguing.

Monmouthshire has had an ambiguous status since the 1500's and was an English county at one point until it was handed to Wales in the 60's(?).

Will you be laying claim to the large portion of Shropshire that was once in Wales?

pads said...

If the EDP are serious about this, they'll put up candidates throughout the constituencies of the historic Monmouthshire, since they make an historic claim.

The Monmouthshire as it is on the map now has only been in existence for for 10 years.

They should include Cardiff South and Penarth, because the old county stretched as far the Rumney River.

pads said...

I'd love to see Gary Bushel walking the streets of Blaenau Gwent at the by-elections telling people "you are not Welsh".

wonkotsane said...

Scottish and Welsh politicians have been telling us we're not English for a long time. Your mate Hain being one of them.

Nicholas Michael Morgan said...

I agree that British nationalists such as Hain have been trying to curb English Nationalism, but Welsh and Scottish Nationalists such as members of the SNP and Plaid have not.

That is the difference. Welsh and Scottish Nationalism is about promoting our culture, and the cause of independence.

It seems from your latest antics that English Nationalism is just the same imperial Nationalism that we have come to expect from the British Nationalists.

I'd be more than happy to see an independent England, I would support the cause 100%. But leave Scotland, Wales and Cornwall alone. Promote, your own culture, and your own cause, BUT STOP POACHING!

wonkotsane said...

Stop poaching what? How much support do Plaid have in Monmouthshire? The various Welsh language initiatives have been resisted in the borders and support for the Assembly was particularly low in the borders.

If you support English nationalism then you won't begrudge the EDP a bit of publicity in Monmouthshire which, lets face it, isn't ever going to be a Plaid stronghold.

And don't even get me started on Cornwall. Their independence movement is a joke - they're one of the poorest areas in Europe and wouldn't survive in the real world without billions of pounds in loans which would be entirely unserviecable.

You have to remember, independence is all well and good but you have to be able to support yourselves afterwards. England has a budget surplus, Wales could cut back on the freebies and maybe break even, Scotland could do the same and so could Northern Ireland at a push but Cornwall would struggle to survive on anything other than subsistence farming. They have very little industry or infrastructure. Their economy is dreadful.

cornubian said...

Wonkeston please explain the existence of nations and autonomous regions smaller than our Duchy.

You seemt to have forgotten that we pay more in Tax to Westminster than we get back in funding.

An independent Cornwall would do very well in a con federal UK or EU.

Keith said...

These arguments are a very bad joke. Only a very select few know their true ancestory and then only a very few generations back. Take my family. If you met me and my children you would say English. If you met my Sister and her children, you would say undoubtedly Welsh. Our children's children will probably believe they are pure bred English or Welsh respectively. Furthermore, I am one of the 60% of the population of the South West that is not Cornish-born. So, am I Welsh, English, or Cornish? What I am is a member of a community that wishes to survive and that means one thing and one thing only - it must be economically successful. History, tradition, ethnic origin or culture have no value in that success - unless you are in the tourist industry that is! We must learn to live with each other regardless of supposed origin and that means speaking the same language and I am not talking about English, Welsh, Cornish or Chinese here!